Women Who've Sold Their Business Series: Andrea Wagner
Jul 15, 2024
In the past 20 years, there has been a wave of women-owned businesses, and women selling those businesses. However, no one is really talking about it. In this mini series, host Kris Plachy is bringing women business owners on to talk about their experiences of selling their businesses. In this episode of Leadership is Feminine, Kris talks with Andrea Wagner,PhD. Andrea shares her story and lessons she has learned throughout almost 15 years of starting and selling businesses.
Andrea brings a lot of insight to this conversation on topics such as acquiring funding, identifying market indicators, and how crucial it is to surround yourself with co-founders that have skills which compliment your own. She also talks about her latest projects, Lux Lined and Herizon Funding.
This conversation doesn’t just focus on business advice. Andrea also shares what it was like to experience the emotional journey of selling. Unlike the previous guests in this miniseries, Andrea did not stay on for any transitional period after the close of the sale, and she details what that felt like.
The conversation then turns to the need for more badass women in sales, technical, and financial roles with Kris highlighting an important moment when Andrea leveraged the skills of women in her network without feeling like she had to DIY every aspect of a new business venture. As Andrea perfectly illustrates, "Just do it and move onto your next great thing."
Brace yourself for an episode jam-packed with wisdom, wit, warmth, and women empowerment.
Guest Bio
Andrea N. Wagner is a dynamic entrepreneur and advocate for women in business, renowned for her significant contributions to the fields of manufacturing and STEM education. As the former C-Level executive and co-founder of Berkshire Sterile Manufacturing and Hyaluron Contract Manufacturing, Andrea has demonstrated exceptional leadership and innovation in the industry.
A staunch supporter of women-owned businesses, Andrea is deeply committed to investing in their success. Andrea's dedication to women's equality in education, finance, and business connections is remarkable. She co-founded Herizon Funding, an organization dedicated to providing financial support to women business owners and closing the gender gap, tailored to meet the needs of women entrepreneurs aiming for rapid expansion and growth.
In addition to her professional accomplishments, her efforts to promote equality and create opportunities for women in traditionally male-dominated fields are a testament to her belief in the power of education and empowerment. Andrea's legacy is one of innovation, advocacy, and unwavering support for women in business and STEM.
Website: luxlined.com
Website: HerizonFunding.com
Key Takeaways From This Episode
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The Necessity of Having a Trifecta in a Business: A sales-focused person, a technically focused person, and a financially focused person
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The ultimate purpose of a business to deliver an outcome and create profitability
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Unique Mechanisms for Selling Businesses: The pre-sale of the business, clauses for reselling and valuing partial ownership over time, avoidance of 'earn out' agreements
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Emotional aspects of selling businesses and the mental preparation required
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The Rise of Women Entrepreneurs and Challenges Faced: The lack of women in C-level positions and the necessity to encourage more women into business
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Initiatives to Support Women-Owned Businesses: The importance of mentoring women entrepreneurs and assistance in growth
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Transcript
Kris Plachy:
My goal really is that, as you know, this is my perspective. But as a Gen X woman, we've now just watched this big wave of women becoming successful entrepreneurs and having their own businesses and really finding a whole new landscape where they can win and thrive and create their own world. And then now it's starting to seem like there's this other wave of women selling those businesses, and benefiting from their 15, 10, 12, 30 years of effort and work. I've just been realizing there's just so little conversation for women. You know, I think if you know the right people, you can have conversations about selling, and who are the right people to talk to, and what are the resources you need, and what should I be doing to prepare? So I just kind of popped this thing out on my instagram a couple weeks ago and just said, listen, if you've sold a business, I would love to talk to you. I want to do a series on talking to women who've sold businesses, because from what I can tell, everybody has a very different experience. And so I just wanted to put something together for the people who listen to this podcast. So we just build our own acumen here in a way that seems right for the women who are listening.
Kris Plachy:
So that's the goal. So tell us a little bit about the business that you did sell. I want to kind of get into what you the business you had and, you know, what made you make that decision. I'm kind of curious how you got where you are today. I also want to talk about your new business.
Andrea Wagner:
Yeah.
Kris Plachy:
Which is fabulous.
Andrea Wagner:
Yeah. So the business that I just sold with two other partners, two other founders, it was a sterile manufacturing of drug product business. Now, we had worked together in a prior business and sold that in 2010. So that business was a learn- a bootstrap, learn as you go, type business. That was not the way to learn how to do a sterile manufacturing business. And it was brutally hard, this business. We knew what we did wrong, so we said, okay, we're going to do new technology. We're going to drive the future.
Andrea Wagner:
So we had this new technology that was just coming out. We were the first adopters of it. We put it in and we showed people that this could make, this could happen. And what happened? Of course, everybody started switching over, because if little bitty Berkshire Sterile could do it, then why aren't you doing it, too? We, like, pushed the envelope. We got a jumpstart of about five years in the rest of the industry, and we really captured a lot of business. It wasn't just the equipment that really attracted people, but we also knew how to put people around it. Like, you have quality systems, you have engineering, you have process engineering, you have quality control, which is laboratory type stuff. So we knew how to structure it from the prior experience.
Andrea Wagner:
There aren't a lot of women owned businesses, and in fact, only about 3% of them are at the C-level, women in general. So that's why a lot of women don't know other women, because there aren't that many women that are doing this. And I would love to see more women doing these things. And I think there's a lot of hurdles. You know, for example, you know, they talk about imposter syndrome, but maybe it's just complete lack of knowledge.So unless you're at a C-suite, you're not really learning how businesses run. So the whole goal here is just to get more women into this field.
Kris Plachy:
Yeah, I completely agree. I think it's, even if they've started a business, people don't even think that it's sellable. Do you know what I mean? It's like, it doesn't even occur to me. I remember a former client of mine, now very good girlfriend, Eleanor Beaton, we were at an event, and she was talking about the founder of, I think it's the Duolingo guy. He got, like, in 2016, he had this idea, and he went in the world, and he said, 'I have this idea', and he got $20 million from investors before he ever had a product.
Andrea Wagner:
Right.
Kris Plachy:
And it took him six years. He built a team. He hired all the engineers. He hired all the pieces and parts. Right. They didn't actually have a product to sell for six years.
Andrea Wagner:
Right.
Kris Plachy:
She said to all of us, she said, 'What could you create if you had six years and $20 million, and you knew you didn't have to deliver it in, like, three weeks?' Right, right. And it was just such a, it's, to your point, it's just- it's a whole mindset, and like a- It's like somebody said to me once, it's like a color I didn't even know existed.
Andrea Wagner:
Well, okay, so we're talking about women. Women are severely disadvantaged, and it continues. So in 2016, the same timeframe, or it could have been 2018, they got about 2.4, 2.2 percent of all the private equity money. Last year, they got 1.8%. So it's like, they don't get any money to do their businesses. They have to bootstrap it. They have to go borrow from friends and family occasionally.You'll see a woman that's broken through, and then the question is, well, how did you do it? And, you know, the answer is usually, 'well, I work for a private equity firm, and so I knew a lot of guys that would give me money'. And I'm like, maybe we should all go work for a private equity company, you know?
Kris Plachy:
Yeah. Or create them. Right.
Andrea Wagner:
Or create them, like Herizon Funding.
Kris Plachy:
Right, exactly. Yeah.
Andrea Wagner:
And so we're starting to see adjust starting. So the other problem is that women traditionally have gone into nonprofit and not for profits. A lot of women, if you talk to them, even the ones that have had companies and they sell, what are you going to do next? Oh, I'm going to do my passion project, which is a nonprofit. And I'm like, hmm. So why don't you reinvest that and do something with your passion project that would be profitable and give money to, you know, all of these nonprofits that exist already, and they're like, huh. I said that would be actually more fundamental because then you would get more women that would see you as a mentor to doing that activity of building businesses.
Kris Plachy:
It's an important message. And it's, you know, I think there's a lot of belief that starting a company that's for profit is harder. There's guilt over thinking you should make more money when there's a lot of, you know, there's just so many things I think that women stumble over.
Andrea Wagner:
I know women that are in the for profit world, and they also have the, you know, nonprofit on the side that they're working on, and they struggle with that because they're so used to giving value. And with nonprofit, you give value, but you're asking people to donate. Right. They're, they're personally not getting anything but the value that they're giving back to society. So how do you framework that into a sales pitch? And people are not good with that. It's like they're not- in general, entrepreneurs can be one of two ways. They can be very technically oriented or they can be very sales oriented.
Andrea Wagner:
So the ones that tend to be sales oriented tend to do better because you can make a product, but if you can't sell it, then you don't have a business. So if you're a person that is very technically focused and you need to recognize that and hire somebody that is going to be sales focused so that you marry those two together and do the best. And I would also say that in the perfect trifecta, is getting somebody financially focused. Yes, you have a three. And when I worked with my two other co founders on Berkshire Sterile. We went into it, we had the CFO, we had me on the BD side, and then we had this other person that was on the operational side. He could build it, and it was absolutely the perfect match. And I was like, this is really interesting.
Andrea Wagner:
And I was able to take a lot of lessons from that away, too.
Kris Plachy:
It's so vital. Whoever you're doing all of that, for me, it's a four legged stool. It's having all of those pieces and parts that can handle the parts that you can't do and vice versa, but you're still aligned to the vision and the promise and your values and. Right. Yeah.
Andrea Wagner:
You have to believe it. So people would often say to me, I don't know how you can remain so optimistic. I said, because you're in this, you know, la la land in your mind that says, this is how we gotta go, and you're gonna go regardless of the hurdles that we will have to face. If you don't have that type of mentality, you can get pushed back and never recover. Some things that women should be aware of, too, is that if you don't have to give or give away any part of your business, don't. Why? Because. Because you're going to be working real hard. Okay.
Andrea Wagner:
And at the end of the day, it's yours. You get to make decisions. So I've talked to a few women who had a great idea, and then they brought on private equity, and they were originally like a 50 or 75% ownership, and now they're below 51%. So once you delve below the 51, you are no longer. You no longer own your business. So.
Kris Plachy:
And a lot of times, not always, you are exited at that point on the business. There's quite a few women who get to the point where they. They lose their own CEO position or president position in the company. Yeah.
Andrea Wagner:
Because the people can come in and oust you. There's no reason why they need to keep you if they own the business and they control it. So these are all things that you need to be aware of. And maybe it's okay if you grow a little slower. You need to think about this going in. You need to say, okay, I need a couple million dollars. Can I get a couple million dollars from a bank? I might be able to do that. And if I can get it from the bank, that's the cheapest money you can get.
Andrea
Wagner:
I don't care if they're charging you 10%, that is the cheapest money you're going to get, because you can pay that off and you have no equity in it. And then there's this other thing where, especially if you're going in a loan, you're scared. There's some level of you that has fear, and you know that if you don't make the numbers or if you don't do this, you won't be able to afford the employees. So the thought of, well, 'maybe if I sell some of my business, and then I could have a partner, and I could have a partner that's willing to help me, you know, divest and take a little money off the table'. That's good. That's great. We did that at actually at Berkshire sterile, too. We sold 25% and we were able to retire
Andrea Wagner:
one of the founders because he was at retirement age and he deserved to retire, and he had stuck it out for five years. Big deal. Then we took a little bit of money off the table too, but it was only 25%. So we still own the majority of it, the two remaining partners. So you still had control of the decision. So those are things I would recommend, but do not go below 51%. The other thing that a lot of entrepreneurs do is they do it like, I want to build this business in this place because I want to help people. I want to help them grow. I want to do good things for people.
Andrea Wagner:
And, you know, this is a great thing. And by the way, I was one of those people, too. But the reality is that by you putting a business, we put a business in economic depressed area, which is now in pretty good shape right now. And we knew that business would survive forever because that's how those manufacturing facilities are. We built it, though, to sell it. But you can say, okay, yeah, if I put this business here, I'm going to help the community, I'm going to help the people. But ultimately you build the. It's a lot of work.
Kris Plachy:
Yeah.
Andrea Wagner:
And I think you're.
Kris Plachy:
I think I love the perspective that you're bringing, because I do think it's great if you have a wonderful vision and promise for what your business will do in the world, but we have to always remember, I think. I think everybody who works in a business, not just the leadership, employees, too. Like, the reason we're all here is to deliver a result. Right? We're not- it's lovely when everybody feels good and, and gets good things because we're here to. But that business was born to deliver an outcome, and that's what everybody's focus should always be. Right.
Kris Plachy:
And in your case, your ultimate result was to sell that business. But in order to sell it, you had to create a profitable, successful business. Right? You had to have a team of people who were aligned to the results and the expectations of the business. So I just think that's such a clean perspective. And I think sometimes it does get a little lost when we get a little too tangled up in the people and everybody's feelings and the service of the business over the productivity or the success of the business. That's why a lot of people struggle with accountability that we get into. What I would love to know is, when did you know it was time to sell? How did you know?
Andrea Wagner:
So a lot of times the market tells you because they'll start getting people that come to you and want to buy it. So that process started for us in 2018, actually. So, you know, we opened the doors to do business in 2016. People are starting to say, hmm, this might be a bit.
Kris Plachy:
But you. When did you sell, though? You just sold just in 22, right?
Andrea Wagner:
23.
Kris Plachy:
23. Okay. Yeah. Wow.
Andrea Wagner:
October 2023. So. But we pre-sold. So this is kind of interesting. It's a unique situation, if you will. So if you're in a market that's highly wanted, okay, and it's profitable and such people, investors will be looking to, 'oh, who's the next up and coming person? Who can we buy and then make them great and then sell them later after we open a little bit more?' As I said, we were young and we were technology wave, right? So in 2019, we were definitely getting a lot of interest. So we pre-sold it, meaning we signed an agreement where we sold 25% of it and then they had an option in three years to buy the rest of it.
Kris Plachy:
Okay.
Andrea Wagner:
Or they didn't have to buy the rest of it and we could buy it back from them, the 25%, or we could co sell it to somebody else. So it was a very unique agreement, but it's an agreement that most people have never seen and should know about.So you can resell the negative, the positive and negative, so you agree on a set even price multiplier. Okay. So the negative for us was the multiplier increased over time, so we didn't get as much value. The positive for them, it increased over time, so they got more value. Right. And vice versa.
Andrea Wagner:
That could happen. So you could say, okay, here's the multiplier, and when you get there, if it's lower, you're still going to pay me that, or you don't have to because you can get out and they would probably say, 'oh, we went out because the multiplier is lower.'
Kris Plachy:
So did you end up selling to the people who bought it to that. Okay. Okay. And then from a sale perspective, one of the other questions I've had for everyone is, what was your role post sale with the business? Did you stay involved in it at all?
Andrea Wagner:
We also had a unique situation there, too. So as part of the pre-sale agreement is we didn't have to, we didn't stay on. So a lot of deals require and want the owners to stay on, and they definitely want us to stay on. They wanted me to stay on, but I was like, 'no, I'm done'. Many of them want you to stay on. They want you to stay on for at least a couple of years. So, you know, this is very, and they'll do an earn out.
Andrea Wagner:
If you can avoid it at all costs, please avoid it 100%. You don't have control, and you have to make certain numbers, and they can't literally get in your way, but literally they can get in your way unless you don't own anymore. I would say, like, when you sell business, it's like selling a house, and if you're still living in it with somebody else owns it, it's, like, a little odd. So you don't own it, somebody else's house. Right.
Kris Plachy:
And you make the decisions. Yeah, yeah. There's somebody that I know who's going through that right now, and it's really, really challenging. The CEO that bought the business and took over is running it into the ground, and she's got a five year contract.
Andrea Wagner:
So, yeah, the norm is, like a year or two, never five. So it's really important to understand the norms, and your m and a attorney can really help with that, like, but that's really important that the smaller the better. If you're getting along with them, you can always fail on. But most business owners, there's different visions. Right. You're no longer in control.
Kris Plachy:
Yeah. And in my former life, I used to work with a private equity firm, and they would bring me in to coach the leader who took over after they bought a company. One in particular I did that with, the founder did hang out, and the founder and his son stayed and made it very, very difficult for the new president to implement change and to move things along. It created, there was this factioning that was happening. So I know it can go all sorts of different directions. Right. It's always rooted in communication and clarity and those agreements. And in my experience, two of the other women I've talked to so far, they both had three month agreements, and then they exited.
Kris Plachy:
And that same. That seemed like it was the best option. Just hang out for a little bit.
Andrea Wagner:
Short, and that's great. You know, if you can. Um. Like, for me, it happened. I was gone that day, and it's, it's hard. I've talked to other business owners, and it's like. It's like you've, like, cut the cord.
Kris Plachy:
Did you catch, did you see Jim Collins presentation when we were at WPO? There was that one part where somebody asked about selling, and I thought, I thought his advice was so sound. He said, you know, be careful. Be careful. Make sure that the thing that you want to sell isn't also the thing that you love to have. Right.
Andrea Wagner:
Yeah, but that's the other thing. Right. It's like, I agree with him, but whenever you sell it, I mean, we have an attachment to, like, for me, Berkshire Sterile. I'm super proud that I was part of that, and I'm super happy that everybody is, you know, doing so well. And it's just. It gives me a lot of pride. But I had to deal with the fact that I was leaving, and I took a year to, like, forecast that into me because I knew it was going to be hard. And if you plan and you plan for your next steps, you're going to do so much better with that.
Andrea Wagner:
And I know other women, and men, for that matter, that are just like. It's like grief. It's absolute grief. So I agree with Jim Collins, but I also think that if you need to sell or you want to sell, you're still going to go through that process.
Kris Plachy:
Yes. If you can't get away from it. In fact, one of the women I talked to this week, she said, nobody prepared me. This is her exact quote. Nobody prepared me for the existential crisis I was going to go through after I sold my business, because, like, PTSD.
Andrea Wagner:
Honestly, it's terrible. It's like, oh, I should have. Oh, I remembering this. Oh, I can't believe. Yeah. So I think if you just, like, mentally prepare yourself and figure out what you're going to do next, and believe me when I say it's not being on the golf course the rest of your life, it's just not going to happen. So you need to think, okay, what am I going to delve into the day one upon leaving? Maybe I go on a great vacation. Okay.
Andrea Wagner:
But right after that vacation,
I need to get into something gracefully.
Kris Plachy:
Exit, take that vacation, and then, you know, it's like the. I laugh when I'm saying this, this is tongue in cheek when I say this. The great wise philosopher, Dr. Phil.
Andrea Wagner:
Oh, yes.
Kris Plachy:
I just. I'll never forget, though, he's, he said, this was years ago. I saw him say this when he used to say things that I thought were interesting. He said, a racehorse needs to run. And it always kind of stuck with me that, you know, you take a woman who is incredibly industrious and creative and innovative and a visionary, if she doesn't have that next vision. Right, it's paralyzing. So what is your,
Kris Plachy:
or, what was your next vision? Because I actually own one of the things that you made as a result of it. But tell us what you did when you finish.
Andrea Wagner:
So there's several things that I am working on. So one of them was this sweater company called Lux lined. So that was something that about 20 years ago, I went and I wanted a line sweater. My friend was a designer. She went to RISD. She was New York, blah, blah, blah. And I asked her for a line sweater because I get itchy with it. Wools, cashmere.
Andrea Wagner:
It's really itchy, uncomfortable. So I had to wear a turtleneck and a shirt underneath. And it just doesn't. It doesn't fit right.
Kris Plachy:
And it's hot. I mean, that's a lot of clothes already with wool.
Andrea Wagner:
So I went back to her and I said, hey, you know, is this still an impossible dream? You know? And she said, oh, no, actually, I think we can do it. I've worked with this, blah, blah, blah. And so she put together, so I hired her to put together, you know, the designs and get some samples made. So I got. I'm like, oh, my God, they're so amazing. Yeah. They're so amazing.
Kris Plachy:
Yeah.
Andrea Wagner:
They feel like butter on your skin, and they regulate, and there's no static, and you're perfectly warm or cool or whatever you need to be. And anyway, so that's been, that was launched in the end of November, beginning of December of last year.
Kris Plachy:
And we'll include the web address for that.
Andrea Wagner:
But it's l dash lined.com is the website luxlined.com.
Kris Plachy:
Well, and the product, you know, just, just as somebody who I, you know, when I met you and you had all those samples, and it was a chilly, you know, Colorado Springs evening in May, and I put that one on, and I just. It was so delicious. It was, like, just draped on my skin. I was so immediately warm, but not hot.
Andrea Wagner:
So it's just part of it irritating you at all.
Kris Plachy:
Such a great, great idea. Can I ask you a quick question. This is sort of related, but a little left field. But one of the things that is very clear to me, talking to you, is that there's two things I've noticed when you decide, you just know, you just know, going to figure this out, I'll make it work or not, but I'm just, I'm going to go. I'm going to do it. And that also you leverage others where, you know, a lot of female entrepreneurs would have this idea and then bust out the sewing machine. Right.
Kris Plachy:
You know what I'm saying? And they would make their own prototypes and then they would. And so this, this, I'm going to be leading the Sage retreat here in a couple of days. And one of the things that I, we're going to talk about is how to believe in yourself and believe that you do not have to be the primary doer to achieve the results that you want. So many people think they have to do it for it to be the way they want. So I'm just curious what that is for you? Have you always been like that? What is it that you think in your mind that when you have an idea, it isn't just, well, I'll do it. You think, who can do this?
Andrea Wagner:
Okay, so I think women are perfectly adapted to this. Okay, so if we say, like, this is a women thing, right? So as women, we are faced with thousands of problems to do and we have to juggle a lot of balls, right? So I learned through the thing, through building these things or helping to build them, is that if you outsource things, if you can get somebody that's really good at it to do it better than you, that's a-okay. So you can then focus on something else that you could get somebody that's better than you to do, and then you can focus on the other thing. So you can literally grow this thing so much quicker.
Kris Plachy:
Right?
Andrea Wagner:
And I think women, we don't have to be the one that has to do it all, right? We say we do it all. We do. We say that all the time. Well, I did it all. Like, I raised the kids, I took care of the house, I did the laundry, and we do do that. But if we were given resources, like, we also arranged a daycare, we arranged our opportunity to go out with our husband, we arranged to go on vacations. So we're doing all this multitasking and we're, like, using people, not using them, we're paying them, but we're pulling resources in to take care of all these things. We gotta do.
Andrea Wagner:
And, like, you do that in a business too, right?
Kris Plachy:
Yeah. Yeah.
Andrea Wagner:
Right. You hire a housekeeper when you get to. Right, you ask the housekeeper to do your ironing. Or maybe you don't iron at all.
Kris Plachy:
Yes. Although there are a lot of women who won't hire a housekeeper because they feel guilty. Once you realize that that works everywhere it's the most liberating way to live because you don't have to deliver on the very thing you see. You can corral the minds and hearts and hands, literally, of others to get that done.
Andrea Wagner:
And they're better at it because I described this. This is your bandwidth, right? Can't get any bigger, and it can get smaller, but your bandwidth is not infinity. Okay. So that person that said, 'oh, I can't. I feel guilty hiring a cleaner'. Okay. Obviously has it within their bandwidth to clean. Like, I can clean a house, you can clean a house.
Andrea Wagner:
But is my time better spent hiring somebody to do that and doing something else to create a business or any more women create businesses or giving, you know, that support or whatever. So.
Kris Plachy:
And also paying somebody else, like, yes, you're putting your money back. Keep your money flowing. Yes, keep that money flowing in to other women who have businesses because. Yeah, I agree. Like, it isn't necessarily common. A lot of women will tend to have the idea and then think they have to be the one who at least gets it started, and then they'll figure out. And then, of course, the team part can get very frustrating if you think you know how to do it better than anybody else does.
Andrea Wagner:
Well, yeah, you do have to give up some control. You have to be okay with some mediocrity.
Kris Plachy:
Yeah, it's a little bit average every now and then, right. B minus. It'll get it done.
Andrea Wagner:
Saying, it's good enough for government work. You know that saying? Yeah, it's good enough for government work. We're good. Done. Let's move on.
Kris Plachy:
Let's move on. Yes. Yeah, that's. I love it. We're not getting graded here. Okay. So you have your lux line, and then you also have your Herizon, right?
Andrea Wagner:
Yes. I have a couple of co founders in that, Karen Burkhardt and Colleen Kleinhouse. So that is being put together. And we're interested in funding women owned businesses only. And we're also interested in funding them so that they can reach higher values. So, for example, they started their business. They bootstrapped it. They understand what it is to run a business, and they need some money to build a facility.
Andrea Wagner:
They need some money to buy a piece of equipment.
Kris Plachy:
And so hire a key player.
Andrea Wagner:
Hire a key player, do a sales, marketing plan, whatever it is. And because we come with different expertise, our group, little group, we can also help them do better. Like, we had somebody that came to us and they needed a loan. They need a loan. So we do loans as well. And it's like, okay, great, no problem. And then we said, well, the first thing that you need to do, because your business is growing so fast, is you need to work with your bank to get a higher credit line. And she goes, 'okay, yeah, I will do that'.
Andrea Wagner:
And so we got the loan paper to together, and then we go back, she goes, you know what? I got a bank, a different bank, and they're going to give me the whole credit line. I don't need your money. And we're like, that's great. That is wonderful. So that was a win for us. We're like, okay. She listened to us, she did what she needed to do, and she's going to continue working in that vein, and she'll come back to us if she needs money in the future. So that's another thing that we're interested in doing.
Andrea Wagner:
This is our give back. Okay.
Kris Plachy:
I love it.
Andrea Wagner:
Like, doing good things, you know? But this is for profit, right? Yeah. We didn't earn any money on that, but that's okay.
Kris Plachy:
You will. There'll be another one. Yeah, yeah, that's. And so are you doing that in- for, theoretically, for a percentage of the business, or are you doing those more as loans or grants or.
Andrea Wagner:
They're both. So we can. We can get equity. Give money. Get equity. We can board seats, too. We can give money as a loan. We can give loan, like those collateralized things, too, like what the state does, loan guarantees.
Andrea Wagner:
So, and we can also have it where you give a loan and then it converts equity. So there's several different models, and I think there's a lot of women that could use this, and we have our expertise, so we can also help them, you know, just help support them. So I think this is really needed, and I think more women will do this. And we have a lot of women that we know that would also like to be involved in it. And it's
individual. It's like, almost like an angel investment. So say, I want to put more in it than, say, Karen does.
Andrea Wagner:
I can do that. Okay. Or I want to invest in this. Karen doesn't. That's fine. And as we collect more people like you, Kris, say you wanted to be an investor. We'd say we put you on a list. And then as opportunities arose, we'd give you a call and say, 'hey, you want to listen in on this and see if it's something that would you like to be involved in?' But you'd be involved in it as an individual.
Kris Plachy:
So I think if you, if the three of you ever thought you would want to, I think that you three having a podcast.
Andrea Wagner:
Yeah.
Kris Plachy:
Talking about, like, how you even got this going and the kinds of decisions that you guys are making and what you're looking at and why you do and don't choose or opt to invest or fund or give loans. Like, this is the kind of acumen that I think is invaluable. And it's just like everything else, it's, like, happening in little pockets. And so there is a gap here. And I think that when you are. I think that these conversations start and are more readily available to women who are running eight-figure businesses.
Andrea Wagner:
Right.
Kris Plachy:
But a woman who's running a $1.5 billion business, she's not in these conversations, but she should be.
Andrea Wagner:
Yeah. Because you want to get her to.
Kris Plachy:
Attend and just to start. Like, there's advice, like, what. What could, what could these people be doing today, right. Instead of waiting until she hits 10 million.
Andrea Wagner:
Right.
Kris Plachy:
To your point. And then it's like that first business you sold where you guys. You were doing really and, right. And then you figured it out on the second one. So you just have, like, listening to you is so delicious for me because you know so much, and it. It just rolls right out of you. And yet it's so important to share in the world.
Kris Plachy:
So that's just my shameless plug. I think a podcast is always the easiest way to do that because lots of women listen to podcasts because they're busy and so they just drive around.
Andrea Wagner:
Podcasts are big. Yeah. No, I totally agree.
Kris Plachy:
Yeah.
Andrea Wagner:
I listen to a lot of podcasts and books and stuff, so, yeah, I'm a big, too. So one other thing that I'm doing is I'm writing a book. It's called Women Nerds love it. I know. So this is kind of interesting because I'm on it. I'm a STEM person. I'm a nerd myself. And so, basically, I got engaged with Kathy Kolikoff, who's a book writer, as well, and she was like, oh, this is like, this would be great.
Andrea Wagner:
So this is for those women scientists and engineers and mathematicians and techie girly nerds that are out there and they're alone. It's really about getting higher leadership for them. So there's only 3% of them at the CEO level. And so how do we get more of them into the C suite? How do we do that? And so my experience is other people's experiences, the literature, you know, it's like it's a research book, but more importantly, it's just getting, identifying that, okay, we did, our mothers did a great job burning their bras and getting us educated in the seventies and eighties and nineties. And we're pumping out a lot of people in science, but they're not going up, you know, and we've seen them throughout history, but you know, like the, what's the name of the program for the space? The hidden figures. Hidden figures. Oh, yeah, all of those women, they were called computers, right? And you know, not only did they, were they women, but they were women of color, which is even worse in terms of getting any type of elevation in their career. But you know, what if we had, what if, what if we had gender equality? Where could we have gone? Could we be in another solar system? What could we accomplish if we just had gender equality? And it's like we're missing half of it.
Andrea Wagner:
And that's the problem with AI, because all the AI is driven by men.
Kris Plachy:
Because it's all about, I have to tell you, I had this whole- I use chat GPT quite a bit, and I don't recall what I was asking it for, but the response was ridiculous. And I told it, I said, 'you need to, your bias is so evident in your response'. And it just felt good just to say it to the stupid AI thing. But it responded and said, 'oh, thank you for pointing that out'. It doesn't know, but I was so irritated, just, well-
Andrea Wagner:
It's not Chat GPT. It's what is available to chat GPT.
Kris Plachy:
Yes, of course.
Andrea Wagner:
You know, it's like, so there's lots to do. Lots to do. That's right, lots to do. So. And women need to, women are equal to men. Okay, yeah, I agree, we're equal. Okay.
Kris Plachy:
And it's, well, that's a whole other conversation. But there's certainly quite a few women that I have worked with in my life who are so successful on their own and shockingly deferential of their competence and intelligence to their partners and their spouses. And I never quite know how in those moments to respond, but it starts, it's like it isn't a male/female problem and in many cases it's women's. Women are still perpetuating their own.
Andrea Wagner:
Women are equally, we treat other women in many cases, like we're back in high school. It's like, come on. It's like, we may not like each other, we may not like a guy or a woman, but I will always divert to supporting the woman because she's my gender. I have to, because if I don't, then I'm basically not supporting myself.So if we just took on that level and then we got our male counterparts to understand that we bring value and that we can share equally in that, then we will have a wonderful future ahead, not just for ourselves, but for our daughters and granddaughters and whatnot. And the world would be a totally different place, and this is what we've got to accomplish. And that was the premise of Women Nerds. So I love it.
Kris Plachy:
I love and Herizon, like, that element of who you are is in that business as well. Right? There's just.
Andrea Wagner:
Yes. Herizon, H-E-R-I-Z-O-N.
Kris Plachy:
I know. I love it. Someone said to me a while ago, you know, a well resourced woman will change the world. And I just think you're a wonderful example of that. Right? You worked hard. You got. You did all of those things. You got educated.
Kris Plachy:
You invested in yourself. You learned the leadership tools that you needed, and you built two businesses and have been very successful in doing it. And now you are this woman who has the resources to come back into her communities and make an impact in a different way. And I just, the more and more and more and more of us that do that in our own way, all of us will have our own approach. I just think that's the answer. And it's great that you sold your business because now you're free also to do all this other work. Right? So it's not even just that.
Kris Plachy:
That was financially, I'm sure, amazing, and a wonderful thing that you put on the planet, but you also built this space for yourself to do work that is of, like, really, like, world changing, also, like, human changing, which I think is so fabulous.
Andrea Wagner:
So I totally agree with you. And there's so much work to be done, so. And there's so few of us, and we need to make more of us so we can get more work done, so we can make more changes, because the end goal is equalization. And that's a feminist. I had to redefine that for a lot of people. They're like, 'I'm not a feminist'. I'm like, 'if you're a woman and you want equality, you are a feminist'. Okay.
Kris Plachy:
Yeah. Yeah. I agree 100%. I guess I would ask you as we kind of wrap up if there's one final sort of tip or bit of wisdom or insight you would share for other women who are listening who do have the aspiration to sell their business, like what's the nugget you'd leave behind today for them?
Andrea Wagner:
Well, I would say the Nike phrase. Do it. Okay? Because there are many other things that you'll engage in that will be likely better. So if it's ready to sell, you should sell it, move on and do the next great thing.
Kris Plachy:
So that's so good. I love it. Well, you've been wonderful to have today on the podcast.
Andrea Wagner:
Thank you.
Kris Plachy:
Thank you so much for your time. Yeah. And okay, I'll talk to you again.
Andrea Wagner:
Okay. Take care and enjoy Lux Lined.
Kris Plachy:
Remember that I asked you to be a part of my Catalyst podcast event, where I'm inviting you to become a visionary Catalyst, share the podcast link with women that you know. And as soon as you hit 20 shared links, clicks on those, we can measure that. I'm going to give you one of my bonus digital courses.
Go to thevisionary.ceo/catalyst. Get yourself registered. Grab the podcast link. Super easy, and please share it with women that you know that are leading in the world, because I'd love to be able to impact 20 million women. I know that when women feel more confident in who they are as leaders. It changes who they are in their lives.
Let's help women live and lead on their own terms. I can't wait to see how many clicks we get. Let's get it.
